Daves Blog

Watching the Goldwing forums recently and seeing some posts from people just starting out on updating their on board navigation, it’s truly astounding how much confusion and in some cases complete nonsense is being promoted. I think therefore I should try to put the matter straight, but it’s difficult to know where to start so that everyone can understand.

Much of the confusion has come about because of the Honda update in the US which costs $199.00 and it seems many people have little or no appreciation of what this update contains. People are assuming it seems that if they buy this update they’ll get the very latest everything from Garmin, but that’s simply not the case.

It’s a shame in a way that it’s known the Navi is made and supported by Garmin because this leads people to compare it directly with other Garmin units, and really they shouldn’t. It’s the Honda Satellite Linked Navigation System and it just happens to be made by Garmin. If Honda had sourced it from Hokey Cokey 3000 Inc. there wouldn’t be half the confusion or complaints there are. So, if you’re one of those that thinks because it was made by Garmin it should work the same as their other units, or Garmin are somehow responsible for it… please forget it. It’s a Honda unit, built to their specification by a third party.

Anyhow, let me try to explain things for those who are still confused…

The most important thing to understand with the Navi is that it’s a computer and therefore it has an operating system and software that runs on it. Just like you run MS Word perhaps on Windows XP your Honda Navi runs GPS mapping and routing software on top of it’s operating system. Both the OS and the software are stored internally in the Navi but just like MS Word reads .doc documents, your Navi routing software reads maps which are loaded onto a 2gb CF card. However, just like the CD Rom drive on your PC can hold data but can also be used to install an update to an existing application like MS Word, the CF card on the Navi can do the same.

The very latest update from Honda for the Navi therefore contains two components. Firstly it contains a file which the first time the card is inserted will update your Navi’s OS and routing software to version 4.31. After this has been loaded to the Navi unit, the file is never referenced again from the CF card. However, it also contains updated maps which in the case of NA are Garmin City Navigator V8.

Note… yes, they are V8, not the very latest maps available from Garmin which are version 2008. You cannot get a Honda official update for your Navi with maps any later than V8.

So, is it worth updating the OS and unit software to V4.31? Who knows? Unfortunately neither Honda or Garmin have released any information as to what this update does so no one really knows. The original version of the unit software was 4.1 but when the 2007 models were launched this jumped to 4.2. It is known that there was a change in the 4.2 release that changed the way an ‘Unverified Road’ message is presented but beyond this to the best of my knowledge no other changes have been reported for either V4.2 or V4.31.

Following someone on a Goldwing forum making the unit software update publicly available there seems to have been a bit of a rush from some people to get the update installed. Why I wonder? As we have no idea what it does why would anyone rush to install it? Would you rush to install a new OS on your PC or a new engine in your Goldwing if you had no idea what it would do? I wouldn’t!

On my ‘wing, I am still happily running V4.1 (yes, my ‘wing is US spec.) I have had absolutely no issues with it and so to date have seen no reason whatsoever to change it.

So, the maps… Yes, you absolutely can update your maps to the very latest version available from Garmin. Follow the instructions on my Navi pages and as with all previous updates, you’ll be able to install the latest. You must however do so with a full version of the City Navigator software and not with an upgrade from a previous version (unless the previous version was already unlocked to your Honda Navi). If you are going to do this, then please follow the instructions. Don’t try something new, don’t contact Garmin for the unlock code (like they say). Everyone I know who has followed the instructions to the letter has had no problems at all.

I hope that’s helped to clear some of the confusion. If anyone does know of any changes in the OS update please let me know and I’ll gladly update my info accordingly.

Well, it’s ages since I added anything to the blog which unfortunately is also a reflection of how long it is since I’ve ridden either bike. Work and the weather have been the main culprits but also with the run up to Christmas it’s that time of year when we have to visit lots of friends and family. The weather here has been truly atrocious for the last week or so. Not only has it been cold and raining but we’ve had seriously strong winds which when all added together don’t make for fun motorcycling weather. In the old days, when I commuted into central London every day on a bike, I’d have ridden through the whole lot, but now I ride only for fun and getting cold, wet and blown around isn’t my idea of fun.

Thank you to everyone who’s emailed me or commented in the last few weeks. I still have a few replies to get to but I will in the next couple of days. I’ve had some lovely emails about the Goldwing Navi info, and I’m very glad people are finding it useful. One thing that’s become very clear, despite some confusion on the Goldwing forums is that it is possible to update the ‘wings Navi, in the USA, to City Navigator NA 2008. Using the same methods already described on my Navi pages, I’ve already heard from a number of people who’ve performed the upgrade successfully.

Yesterday, I did finally get back into the garage to check on the bikes and to start them up. Well, the Bandit started first press of the button like it had been ridden the day before, but I was surprised to find the Goldwing was completely lifeless. The battery was flat, and I don’t mean nearly flat, I mean completely flat. On turning the key there was absolutely nothing, not a flicker, a dim light or anything. I’ll be leaving it connected to my charger now. I’ve just checked again this morning and while it’s not completely charged, there is at least now some life. I was surprised to find the lock and unlock on the ‘wings remote, wouldn’t work at all until I’d put the keys in the ignition and turned the bike on. I guess it needed something to synchronise the remote key codes.

Things are not looking good for a GWRRA Wing Ding Europe in 2008. I’m not sure I really understand what’s going on but it seems the club HQ aren’t willing to support one or at least aren’t willing to allow Europe to use the name Wing Ding. I’ll never understand how a club for people to share a passion can become so political, but I guess it’s just a sign of the times where people are constantly trying to please the masses, and missing the mark by a mile! I’ll post more on this when I can make more sense of the info I’ve been given.

Anyhow, that’s about all the news for now.

Ron from the US very kindly contacted me after being one of the first people I know of to order the latest update from Garmin. Ron rides a 2008 GL1800 which was supplied with City Navigator North America V8 and version 4.31 of the navi software.

It seems that the update he received from Garmin was nothing more than he already has. In other words, City Navigator V8. So, it seems that Garmin and Honda’s promises of an update don’t really amount to much. Ron has of course returned his update for a full money refund from Garmin. Apparently in discussions with them he was told they had no idea that ‘wings were already being shipped with this ‘latest’ version and that Garmin would not be releasing OS upgrades as that is down to Honda. So in other words, the usual story… Garmin tell you to go to Honda and Honda tell you to go to Garmin and in the end, no one fixes anything.

This has to be one of the poorest managed pieces of a motorcycle in recent history. I wish Honda would take control of the situation and put it right, but experience so far tells us they won’t.

Bottom line folks… as Garmin are announcing City Navigator 2008 for most of their units the Honda navi gets last years map updates.

Poor show all round.

Of course the map updates themselves don’t really affect me as I’m already running City Navigator Europe V9, but I really wish they would fix some of the OS foibles such as the non display of place names on the maps. That has to be one of the easiest things for them to fix as it’s just a setting change. I live in hope.

On a slightly different note but still with the navi I also heard recently from Federico in Italy. It seems one of the biggest Goldwing suppliers there - Goldwingpoint, who still imports a lot of US spec bikes has successfully interfaced a VDO MS 5200 navigation system to the ‘wing. It replaces the Honda navi and still uses the navi screen. Unfortunately their site is in Italian but basically they’re saying you don’t lose any of the existing functionality and gain the advantages of the VDO system. These include 2D/3D map display, PC programming etc. Of course the biggest advantage to them is that the system speaks Italian, but as the VDO system is made for many countries, it should work on any navi Goldwing. I have written to them with a view to seeing if they would be prepared to sell their wiring harness seperately. I get the impression though that they don’t speak English and so I’ve not yet got a response.

You can read all about it here.

I’m learning from a couple of the US forums that the latest ‘wings, apparently 2008 models are being delivered with version 8 of the US City Navigator maps and version 4.31 of the unit software. Garmin however have told a number of people that their latest update is an even later release than this. Unfortunately at the moment, it seems no one can get any detail information as to what the update actually contains but it should certainly be worth watching.

The weather was good enough yesterday to get some more riding in and so we added about another 100 miles to the Bandit. It’s now over 500 miles and so it’s time to arrange for it’s first service. I’m not sure what to do about this. Steve Jordan Motorcycles said the first service was included in the purchase price, but they’re about 80 miles away from me. I guess I could take it somewhere much nearer - Pro-Bike or George Whites but then it would cost me. It’s a shame in a way we can’t predict the weather. If I knew it was going to be good I’d enjoy the ride to Steve Jordans.

Filled the Bandit again yesterday and on calculating the fuel consumption I see I’m still around the 48mpg range, same as the second tank full. What that tells me is that the 53mpg of the first tank full was probably a fluke due to taking it real easy and that 45-48 is more likely to be the norm. No complaints there. What is also tells me is that the drop between tank 1 and 2 wasn’t due to the Blue Flame exhaust. That’s great news too in my opinion because it’s another plus in favour of it.

My EK Mount for the ‘wing is supposed to arrive tomorrow and so I’ll finally be able to fit my Garmin Quest. This is really for our planned trip to Denmark and it shows one of the shortcomings of the built in Navi - the ability to plan and store routes. I wouldn’t mind sitting on the bike programming routes, but the system has no ability or menu structure to remember them. All you can do with the navi is store waypoints or favourite places and then get it to navigate to them when you need to. That’s absolutely fine for normal use, but with the trip to Denmark for example I’ve been able to use MapSource on my PC and plan alternative routes depending on how the mood takes us. The routes are then stored and I can just recall the one I want. I’m not being critical of the Honda Navi here, it works just fine as a point to point navigation system, but I am pointing out an advantage of a separate unit.

Speaking of the navi, Garmin in the USA have finally announced an update for it. It’s uncertain what it contains but I’ll be watching the forums with interest especially to see if it includes any system software updates and more importantly any added functionality. I really hope they’ve at least increased the display of map detail so that it shows place names.

I also need to get the oil for the ‘wing this week so I can give it a good service before we set off. I might do this next Sunday as next Saturday is the annual Calne Bike Show. I hope the weather is good for it.

A member of one of the Goldwing forums in the US contacted Garmin US to enquire about the promised update. The answer they got…

Part number 010-10678-50 - 2 GB Pre-programmed SD Card Map Update North America, $199.00. Not Available. Garmin has not received the NAVTEQ map info. No estimated release date.

So, it seems even folks in the US can’t get a straight answer from Garmin US. No surprise really. Garmin fob you off to Honda, Honda to Garmin, Honda feed absolute twaddle to their dealers and so it goes on.

I still don’t see how Garmin could just release an updated CF card when the current CF cards are locked to each bikes navi by the units serial number/unit ID/unlock code. Of course there may be a way and I just can’t see it. The real trouble is though that the only truly useful update would be a firmware update to address the irritations such as the map display of place names, or rather lack of them. Oh well… one step forwards and another back lol.

Garmin have told at least one US GWRRA member that they are about (next week) to release an update for the Goldwing Navi. The part number apparently will be 010-10678-50 and the price will be $199.00 (That’ll be US dollars).

I’ll be very interested to learn how this update works. As it’s already known that the maps on the CF card are tied to the Navi unit through the Garmin Map Unlock Code, I don’t immediately see how Garmin can release a generic update applicable to all units. Perhaps it’s a firmware only update, which would not be unlock code dependant and hopefully if it is it will have addressed a number of annoyances such as place names not displaying.

If it’s a map update as well then it won’t be much use to those of us in non US countries who bought imported US spec. bikes. Although having said that if people report marvellous changes to the firmware it may be worth obtaining just for that. Providing of course they’ve not included something in a firmware update to then prevent the maps being updated.

Of course this is as usual all speculation on my part and I will watch with interest for developments.

Or less Garmin depending on your point of view… I finally had a second reply from the US support people and they are plainly not going to offer any help with the unit. They won’t even tell me what changed between versions 4.1 and 4.2 of the unit system software. In fact they told me that it has nothing to do with them and I should contact Honda. As we all know already, Honda say the unit has nothing to do with them and any updates will come from Garmin. Talk about being given the run around lol.

On a slightly more positive note, my contact in Garmin UK is at least trying to be more helpful but as he needs to obtain most of his info from the US I’m not sure how helpful he can be. I do know that he spent some time with a technician from Honda UK and between them they have explored the system. He feels that route and waypoint transfer simply isn’t possible although he does agree it should be possible to change the level of detail displayed on the maps.

This is very disappointing and unfortunately appears to prove that Honda specified and Garmin supplied probably the lowest spec. most inflexible GPS system they’ve built to date. As I’ve said before, to me, this doesn’t make the unit useless. As a point to point automotive navigation system it’s OK and would be even better if it would display place names. However, it does look as though PC based route planning is only possible with an external GPS unit.

I’m looking now to see if I can find a GPS unit that could be integrated with the Hondas screen. I think that now is the only way the system can be made more useful.

Well, I’m sorry to say that unless I have any further bright ideas, or someone can point me in the right direction, I’m giving up with the PC to Navigation system interface hopes.  Sorry, but it really doesn’t help that I’m by no means a serial data expert and so while I’ve certainly managed to receive data, I have not the first clue what I’ve been looking at.

I made up a lead that enabled me to seperate the 6P white connector on the nav system and then interface the Rx, Tx and Gnd leads to the serial port of a PC. I did it in such a way that I could easily connect or disconnect the leads a pin at a time. With this flexibility in the lead and the ability on the PC to select many different baud rates, stop bits, parity etc. I’ve been able to see tons of data but not one single string that’s made any sense. I’ve tried to interpret it as ascii, dec, hex etc. and have failed to understand a single byte.

I was hoping at the very least that I’d discover the nav system was pumping out NMEA data, but I couldn’t even manage to find any of that in amongst the tons of data that streamed across my screen. So, as I say, without any further ideas or information, I really have nowhere to go.

I will continue with experiments of trying to transfer data via the CF card but I have a feeling that until Garmin enable more functions or will release more information on the system, we’re stuck with what we’ve got.

I am learning new things about the system all the time from the various forums and I will continue to update the info here as and when appropriate.

I updated a few of the Goldwing Navi pages today with further information that’s come to light over the last few days. I finally managed to get hold of some spare 2gb CF cards and can now absolutely dispell any myths surrounding using other CF cards in the navi system. They work perfectly and all the details are on the card update page.

I also added a little history of the system on the about page especially as it’s recently come to light that European spec. bikes are using a completely different OS version to the US spec. bikes. I really need to find a friendly dealer here in the UK who’ll let me go and ‘play’ with a European spec. 2007 model.

In the next few days I intend to connect the PC up to the bike again and continue with my experiments. Obviously I’ll post any results, or further lack of them, when I do. I’ve managed to get hold of the 4.1 to 4.2 update file included on the later US spec. bikes (thank you, you know who you are), but I haven’t been brave enough to try and load it yet as I don’t want to wreck the system. I don’t think it should wreck it really but I am a little concerned they put something in there to make map updating more difficult. I’d be surprised if this is the case, but I need to find out more first.